The only woman who ever truly loved you ([info]eldena) wrote,
@ 2008-05-07 10:39:00
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Current mood: running on caffeine alone

Nerdy Question of the Day
Is it appropriate to refer to a male individual of a humanoid but non-human intelligent species as a man?

I would've made this a properly binary poll if I could still do that. I want knee-jerk answers followed by discussion, ideally. But knock yourselves out on it however you like.

...P.S. EGGS AGAIN god why am I addicted damn you.


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[info]inarticulate
2008-05-07 05:00 pm UTC (link)
I have no idea whether I care or not enough to say it's appropriate or not-- but it both seems odd (as in, I can't really imagine it as described from a human POV unless they're unaware that the being in question isn't human) and it's kind of… what else are you going to use? There's always "male," but that can get more clinical and derogatory depending how it's used, so it's a tricky word. There's making up a word, but that can get overly complicated fast.

And my knee-jerk reaction, for the record is, "…huh. GOOD QUESTION." meaning that I don't really… have any at the moment and without specific context.

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[info]nirejseki
2008-05-07 05:32 pm UTC (link)
I hate that dilemma so much. I tend to dislike doing it - I always get the knee-jerk "But they're NOT!" (this is most important in the LOTR/Silmarillion fandoms, because ye gods is it complicated), but on other hand it gets really stupid the twists and turns people go through to avoid it (most important in high-rated fic, because I've seen someone use the word "elfiness" and died laughing. And it wasn't a humor fic. *roll eyes*). It depends on the situation. Most of the time I think you can get away if you do it in moderation, if only because most peoples' eyes skip over the word automatically. You would have to use it in excess or in a really prominent position to get anyone but the nitpickers to notice.

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[info]qable
2008-05-07 06:57 pm UTC (link)
I consider it more appropriate than not? Humanoid still has 'man' stuck in it, and that's good enough for me. Odd are that the species is more relevant than the gender in stories like that, so it shouldn't be a big deal.

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(Anonymous)
2008-05-07 09:11 pm UTC (link)
No.

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[info]chocoincognito
2008-05-07 11:41 pm UTC (link)
A humanoid literally means "having human characteristics or form; resembling human beings", and man can be mainly defined as "an adult male person, as distinguished from a boy or a woman". It is safe to say that male humanoids can be referred to as "men" without any issue. If purists with to take issue with this, then a new word needs to be created for male humanoids to take the place of the word "man". Simply denying the word's legitimacy isn't incomplete when you aren't correcting the problem.

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[info]chime
2008-05-08 12:11 am UTC (link)
I say yes, as long as the universe they're in doesn't tend to often refer to the human race as "man." (For example the aforementioned LotR.) Referring to humans as such grates on me, as it is inappropriately masculonormative for this day and age--unless of course the story depicts a sexist society or something.

Referring to male dwarves specifically as "Dwarf," as opposed to "She-dwarf," grates on me worse!

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[info]eldena
2008-05-08 12:52 am UTC (link)
I say it generally is! First off, all else being equal, I think intelligent non-humans should be able to think of themselves in similar terms as humans do, to whatever extent is reasonable. To my mind, that helps build the impression of them as being autonomous and equally valid cultures, rather than foreign entities defined by their differences from humans.

Besides which, I myself definitely associate "man" with maleness before I associate it with humanity. (And I support actively phasing the humanity meaning out altogether.) People tend to have less issue with applying terms like "woman" or "boy" to non-humans, in my experience anyway, cause they don't have that second connotation. But we may as well normalize it.

Once upon a time this issue came up for me in the very early days of my WoW experience, on one of my very first visits to an RP server. I was, of course, already playing as a troll because trolls are awesome, and at one point I referred to Thrall (an orc, for those of you following at home) as a great man, and someone took issue with it. I hadn't really thought about it myself at that point! I wonder what-all informs people's visceral responses to a word like that.

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[info]freyr
2008-05-08 01:58 am UTC (link)
Of course we don't think it's that bad. We are humans! I daresay you call nearly any elf, dwarf, orc, what-have-you a man, and there will be blood.

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[info]comicsan
2008-05-08 02:06 am UTC (link)
I tend to associate 'man' with 'humanity' before 'males' so I wouldn't, but rather coin a new term more appropriate to such a being. My answer wouldn't change for 'woman' 'boy' 'girl' unless you're being affectionate such as to a dog in which case 'boy' and 'girl' seem to be okay.

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